freelancers question regarding clients and initial design stage

[chanchito]

Good evening everyone,

I am new to the freelance design world and I was just looking to pick the brains of fellow designers. Instead of racking my brain on how to eloquently put forth the particular question I have, I figure the best way is to just get off my mind what is bothering me.

About a week ago I presented my client with two initial design templates that I created based on the information the client provided me during our initial consultation. After presenting the design templates to the client I gave them three days to look over the designs and then sign off on the one that they like, or a frankenstein version of the two. The client has taken a week and I have now just received an email asking to meet up with them to go over a redesign that they have put together after going over the templates with their friends.

I realize I am possibly making a mountain out of a mole hill here because I have not had the meeting to truly find out what kind of redesign they want.

This brings me to my question though. Do you guys (or gals) put anything in your proposal that covers you from being bogged down in a sea of redesigns until the client is finally happy? I am fully understandable of the fact that the client does need to be happy with what they have for their website. And I know that to put down "the client must choose one of the templates given to them" in the proposal is ludicrous; this way I could create two completely crappy templates and say that they have to pick one of them. But if the client turns down the design templates put forward, tells you why they don't like them, gives you feedback for the redesign, and then you go and spend time creating the redesign, show it to them, they still don't like it, and you keep playing this game of teeter-totter for how long?

Hopefully I am making sense here? I just want to be mentally prepared for my meeting tomorrow, especially if the client has a redesign that is going to take me a large amount of time to put together.

I have been reading the thread in this forum that was dealing with pricing and I am like those of you that charge a lump sum based on the parameters of the project. I wouldn't be worried here if I was charging per hour, but I am not, and although I have put a clause in my proposal that says I reserve the right to renegotiate the proposal based on elements that arrive that are outside of its original scope, I did not put anything in that stated how many redesigns would be allowed. Is this something that is appropriate for my next proposal? Have any of you put something similar in your proposals?

Any and all feedback is greatly appreciated.

Cheers
chanchito

[Early Out]

You might want to browse through this thread (http://www.bluehostforum.com/showthread.php?t=1485), which touches on some of the pitfalls a designer runs into.

[chanchito]

thanks, I'll give a read.

cheers
chanchito

[carasmo]

Hello,

First of all, go over the project and get a thorough grasp of it. Then spit it out back to them in the form of the proposal and estimate, outlining the scope and the parameters. If the parameters change from them, then you change the price or the scope (less pages, don''t add the event calendar, whatever).

Then the estimate should be a price range, not a fixed price. I price things with sometimes a two thousand dollar difference.

Web Development for XXX: 1500.00 - 3000.00

Explain that that's the policy you have since the unknown, is well the unknown.

Other tips:

When a job is presented as simple, it's not (usually).

Design without fear.

Pray before you work.

Only present one design, or they will take both designs and make a fugly one that you won't want to put in your portfolio.

Under promise and over deliver. Seriously. It's what Carnagie said and it makes all the difference. I have customers who never leave (knock on wood). Through pregnancy, trips to India, and weird homeschooling schedules, even corporate clients will stick with you if you have integrity and you don't suck.

My site is in redesign flux now. So I'm not posting it as it's 7 years old!!!

Peace!

[chanchito]

thanks for the advice. I like the fact of a varying price versus a fixed one. This way the client can truly think about what elements they want to start adding to the site as they see the price hitting closer to the far end of the range. =) Plus it keeps you protected by ensuring you get paid for the 'true' time and effort that you have put into the work.

Since this is my first 'official client' I feel I have short changed myself, but I also need to be a bit more flexible in the beginning so that I can build up a portfolio. Although, when the my next client presents themselves, I feel now that I have a much better grasp at what I should be charging. My work log that I have created tracks the time that I have put into the project and then I just divide that by the cost of the project. This lets me see how much my hourly rate is at that exact moment. =)

No problems on not posting your website. I am still working on my own, but I have the same deadline as that of this project, since when it goes live the last thing I want is to have my website address on it and then having no website to show. That doesn't instill much confidence for any potential clients.

cheers
chanchito

[bobdog]

Since this is my first 'official client' I feel I have short changed myself, but I also need to be a bit more flexible in the beginning so that I can build up a portfolio.

You're actually doing yourself a favor by under bidding the job. It's your first job, the experience and the reference is priceless.

No doubt, you will find yourself working hard. But the next time and the time after that, you get smarter, work faster, and more efficiently.

I remember my first job years ago. I busted out notepad and typed html for days! So long my hands got sore. Then after all that experience, I found programs that speed up the progress- like DreamWeaver and html editors.

Consider yourself in Boot Camp. It just gets easier after that.

[fedor]

A little offtopic:Messes up some JavaScript Codes:(